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Paul Oblomov
Так вот зачем сдк нуген был smile.gif

To Fabio: Freakin' damn kewl smile.gif But, I must admit, not for closeups. At least for now.

But keep it rollin', anyways smile.gif
Fabio Policarpo
Just posted ver 1.8 in my site... you can all try it out now.

The new plugin can be used just like the previous version and has a new option for curved relief mapping with silhoette. For the new option to work you must use the new modifier Relief Mapping Data on the meshes.

Still need to optimize the curved relief mapping more ... sampling on the silhouette areas is difficult and expensive. So using silhouette option is slower.

Also the curvature is calculated in two axis only (U and V texture directions). So it is a rude aproximation to the actual curvature. A sphere or cylinder works fine as they have simple curvature but more complex surfaces will be more problematic.
Fabio Policarpo
Made a tube bump like Triar. Mine is a tile with a single bump (not a large image with many bumps like you sent me before Triar).

Try to make the images as small as possible so sampling will be better in them. Attached is the result I got using the knot objet in max. Looks good but does not compare to the metalic look from your displace test.
Fabio Policarpo
конечно проблема есть - когда камера смотрит под углом она сразу вылезает... Наверное этого не избежать - или можно исправить?

Fabio, certainly the problem is - when the chamber looks under a corner she{it} at once gets out... Probably it to not avoid - or it is possible to correct?
VrayMat как-то странно выглядит:
2 triar
бедный, Фабио smile.gif
Ты сам переведи че ты написал biggrin.gif
после электронного переводчика самому надо подправлять...
ТовариЩи! А где собственно версия 1,8???
На сайте у Фабио тока 1,7...
Обнови страницу.
Fabio Policarpo
Triar, fixed the aspect distortion in curved relief mapping ... now your two torus sample looks better.

I have updated the 1.8 release on my site with the fix.... please re-download ver 1.8.
Fabio Policarpo
Another thing when you use the silhouette option you must copy the Relief Mapping texture as instance to the opacity AND specular level map slots.

If specular level is not mapped you will be able to see the specular highlights on discarded silhouette pixels (strange effect like a transparent glass silhoeuette). The specular level map will make the specular intensity at the discarded silhouette pixels zero.
I cant find link to info of your relief mapping shader implementation for realtime app, not for static rendering.
Can you post it?

I found it.

Now i know where i saw your name before, your are creator of Fly3D engine!
Fabio, if you don't mind me asking, what's the point in renaming the plugin file every version?
Wouldn't it be easier to tag it with the version number instead?
Every time i update it max gives me a missing plugin error and all the material assignment process needs to start over again.
Fabio Policarpo
The problem is that when I add/remove parameters to the plugin, the saved files with previous parameter sets will crash on load.

This is because the saving/loading of the parameters is done automaticaly by max and he tries to load the new parameters when they are not there and crash.

I change the plugin name and internal plugin ID so that it considers it a new, different plugin. This way you can have two different versions of the plugin installed and load scenes saved in both versions without a crash (and then replace the materials with new version).

It is possible to support different plugin versions in the same code but that is not simple and I could not find enough info about how to do it.
fair enough! smile.gif

may i ask you what the future of the plugin is going to be?
is it going to go commercial once you've done all you can with it, or is going to stay free and update from time to time when you feel like adding more features to it?
the reason i'm asking is because it not only has a great potential, but already possesses a production worthy power
on the flip side, throwing it into production may not be a good idea if the tool has no future
for example what would happen if you decide not to make any profit on it and one day you'll simply loose interest in supporting it ...
people will go over to the next release of max and a lot of their previous jobs where the plugin was used, will become incompatible with it

so, back to my question ... what's the plan?
can the plugin be trusted as a long term project?

Да, Тони, стопроцентно прав! Итак, что в планах у Fabio? Ибо отследить какую версию ты использовал в своём проекте не очень просто - а проекты накрываются из за отсутствия совместимости с ранними версиями плагина, так что конечно хотелось бы релиза так сказать - ну и поддержки дальнейшей, какова может быть цена этого плагина для масс? smile.gif
Fabio Policarpo
Hi... I can not guarantee anything about the future of the plugin but I do not think having it re-compiled to future versions of max would be a problem. I made the plugin with max 6 and sdk 6, but the plugin works ok on ver 7 and 8 (and maybe next ones). If not, just a simple recompile from the source with new sdk should do it.

Sure I would like to get some money for commercial use of this plugin. I spent a lot of time doing it (over a month work) and I get so many downloads from my site that the web rental double price this month because of that file (will be about 10.000 downloads a month for the plugin). But do not know if people would pay to use it.... maybe for ver 2.0.

Say in ver 2.0 I might ask for a donation with paypal for people doing commercial use of it. I still need to better optimize/profile it and support depth correction (not easy).

And one more thing about the new version and interpolated tangent space. 3dsmax only supports flat tangent space per triangle (not interpolated inside triangle like normal). In previous versions I used a hack that rotates the tangent space from the flat face surface normal to the interpolated normal. This makes tangent space smoother but it is not perfect and generate artifacts like in first image of this post.

The relief mapping data plugin calculates curvature and interpolated tangent space and stores it all into 3 mapping channels (starting at the selected one). So if you enable the Relief Mapping Data option from the material (even without selecting silhouette option) you will be using the good interpolated tangent space resolving artifacts found versions before 1.8.
Fabio Policarpo
Just tried ray traced shadows and works ok with the silhouette option.
Some bugs still occure, look at the leftmost shadow of left torus.
Demon Guardian
QUOTE(Fabio Policarpo @ Jan 28 2006, 15:23)
And one more thing about the new version and interpolated tangent space. 3dsmax only supports flat tangent space per triangle (not interpolated inside triangle like normal). In previous versions I used a hack that rotates the tangent space from the flat face surface normal to the interpolated normal. This makes tangent space smoother but it is not perfect and generate artifacts like in first image of this post.[right][snapback]561338[/snapback][/right]
I was asking about using of plugin in object space right because of these artifacts. yes.gif I thought object normal map would give smoother results. Now as you solve this problem your own way, I can say you've done great improvements, plugin produces realy good look of displaced surfaces, it's impressive. drinks.gif
Fabio Policarpo
QUOTE(Viik @ Jan 28 2006, 12:48)
Some bugs still occure, look at the leftmost shadow of left torus.

You mean right not left ?!? Yes ... does not look perfect there ... have to investigate more about silhouette shadows. I will check to see what could that be related to.

QUOTE(Demon Guardian @ Jan 28 2006, 16:11)
I was asking about using of plugin in object space right because of these artifacts. yes.gif I thought object normal map would give smoother results. Now as you solve this problem your own way, I can say you've done great improvements, plugin produces realy good look of displaced surfaces, it's impressive. drinks.gif

Good that you noticed the improvements of the new version... those artifacts looked bad from close up but wore not that visible at a distant view or when using flat objects like a cube/plane. But now with the fix you can have good large close ups without problems.
1.If you need a mirror(hosting) for your plugin I can put it on my site. (I have unlimited traffic.)

2. Is it possible to make "addition bump" in your "relief mapping" like in build in "normal bump"?

Ребята, кто хорошо знает английский - переводите, плиз.
Общий смысл фраз понятен, но хотелось бы вникнуть в нюансы…
Попробовал перевести. Извиняйте, если некоторые обороты звучат не совсем удобоваримо...
Привет... Я не могу гарантировать что-либо о будущем дополнения к программе, но я не думаю что ее рекомпилирование в будущие версии макса будет проблемой. Я сделал плагин с Максом 6 и sdk 6, но он работает хорошо и с версиями 7 и 8 (и возможно последующими). В противном случае, простое рекомпилирование от источника с новым sdk должно сделать это.

Безусловно я хотел бы получить какие-то деньги для коммерческого использования этого плагина. Я тратил много времени делая его (свыше месяца работы) и я получил так много загрузок с моего сайта, что плата за траффик возросла в 2 раза за этот месяц из-за этого файла (около 10.000 загрузок в месяц для этого плагина). Но не знают, будут ли люди платить за его использование.... возможно за версию 2.0.

Скажем в версии 2.0 я, возможно, попросил бы о оплате людей, использующих его в коммерческих целях. Мне все еще нужно лучше оптимизировать/профилировать его и сделать поддержку коррекции глубины (что не легко).

И еще одна мысль о новой версии и интерполированном касательном пространстве. 3dsmax поддерживает только плоское касательное пространство на один триангл (никакой интерполяции внутри триангла подобно нормали). В предыдущих версиях я использовал зарубку(?), чтобы вращение касательного пространства от плоской поверхности нормализовалось к интерполированной нормали. Это делает касательное пространство сглаженным, но оно не идеально  и создает артифакты как на первом изображении этого поста.

Relief mapping data plugin, просчитывает кривизну и интерполирование касательного пространства и сохраняет данные об этом в 3 mapping канал (начиная с выбранного). Так что если вы задействуете Relief mapping data опцию из материала (даже без выбора опции силуэта) вы будете использовать хорошо интерполированное касательное пространство, решающее проблемы артефактов в версиях до 1.8 й.
"Ты имеешь в виду не слева, а справа? Да... это еще не выглядит идеально. Мне придется еще разбираться с силуэтом теней. Я проверю, с чем бы это могло быть связано.
Хорошо, что ты обратил внимание на улучшения новой версии... Эти артефакты смотрятся плохо с близкого расстояния, но не видны с отдаленной дистанции или при использовании плоских объектов - куб/плоскость. Но теперь, с устранением этих недостатков ты можешь получать ближние виды без проблем.
Demon Guardian
Угу, только не "зарубку", а хак.
Look good in Final Render:

Lary большое спасибо.
Fabio Policarpo
I'm working to make the plugin compatible with Mental Ray.

I found a document about how to configure your plugin so that Mental Ray accepts it and translates its parameters. I have it almost done and I think next version will support Mental Ray render (only for max 7 and 8). Max 6 does not support the Mental Ray plugin translator as it was introduced in max 7.

But I need some help!!!! Can someone there install maxsdk from max7 or max8 cd. Then zip the folder 3dsmax\maxsdk\samples\mentalray and send it to me by email please. I need this to finish the plugin but only have max 6 sdk here and it does not include it. PLEASE SOMEONE SEND ME THAT FOLDER... SHOULD NOT BE LARGE... JUST TEXT FILES.
Big Hobbit
here u r Fabio smile.gif
it's from 3d's max 7
Fabio Policarpo
Thank you Big Hobbit... hope it includes the informtion I need.
Не очень много времени на эксперименты, но если я не ошибаюсь версия 1.8 некорректно работает с процедурными текстурами.
Может кто-нибудь проверить?
Читай все посты!
Фабио писал еще рантше, что с процедурными картами он ВООБЩЕ не работает!
Да и с обычными тоже - нужно делать нормал мэп с помощью плагина...
To Fabio:
Here results of rendering your stage with the unchanged parameters in Scanline and VRay.
In second case a silhouette method gives strong artefaktes.
What can a problem consist in and is its removal possible for VRay?
В Scanline не отображается обратная сторона полигонов.
Tiron, какие полигоны? Это ж бамп на сфере!
Bump тут не причем дело в Silhouette,если включен 2-Sided то возникают подобные артефакты.
Fabio Policarpo
OK fixed that bug. It was related to intersecting the backface when using the silhouette option.

Should work OK now with v-ray render and silhouette option. Made all backfacing rays transparent when using silhouette option. Re-download ver 1.8 for the fix.

I will check now how to make two-sided rendering work with silhouette option.
i have someth1ng 2 show smile.gif
just Xperiments:
user posted image
user posted image


user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

---inverted displacement
user posted image

i also have 2 hires textures in TGA, 2000x1500 (dffuse+alpha and normal+displace), total 22Mb
but i can't upload it here, so use jpegs yet smile.gif
Thank you! Real began to work!
There is another question. On a Sphere all is faithful, and on flat objects - no silhouette and accordingly shades... Look the image.
And yet. I try and put nothing in the Normal Map slot. A result is interesting similarly.
Actually yet interests me as you create the Normal Map with NVidia plugin in Photoshop (what tuning you have in it, if it is possible).
I, for example, do so.
I create the Alpfa channel. Further - I select his and all RGB channels and apply NVidia plugin with such tuning (picture). And then already separately I process Alpfa ( blur, levels and other). And I save as TGA with Alpfa.
Shultz! Если не составит труда, выложи плиз сценку пощупать...
запутался я с опасити что-то...
щупай smile.gif
Ciao, dearest Fabio,

we were all holding our collective breath watching this totally awesome saga unfolding itself almost in...real time. So, do you have any plans of porting your mind-blowing tool back to where it all originated, RT environment? Splitting the shader into customizible nodes (e.g. punch-thru opacity and relief/outline/self-shadowing/etc..) and cutting the cost (in terms of insructions) from ten times to say, five?

(Every time a new test image is posted, it gives me an immense pleasure to rub some programmers noses in each and every of them.)

BTW, tu parli Italiano, per caso? Corragio and buona fortuna - you'll make a pile, that's a cinch, dude.


Fabio Policarpo
Thanks scrawnypaws, but I'm Brazilian and not Italian. So I do not speak italian.... we speak portuguese here.

But I love Italy.... great place. I've already been to many places there like Milan, Rome, Venice and others.... excelent food! I love to go ski in Cortina so good snow there.
seems scrawnypaws just a bit wrong cos of ur name Fabio smile.gif Sounds like italian name...
Fabio Policarpo
Yes my name is Italian... but it is a common one here in Brazil. I think many Italians moved here in the past. Not many russians though.

I have a friend here called Nicolai, he is a 3d artist and also works with cad. He moved from russia to rio last year for new years day party and then got a girlfriend and a job and will not leave anymore. He liked the warm weather and the easy living around here.
to Fabio Policarpo

How use FX Composer Effect in 3D StudioMax?

(relief_mapping_fx.zip->unzip & copy to->MAXROOT\MAPS\FX; in maxScene DirectX9 Shader Materials->relief_mapping.fx & Assign Shader to MESH)

... result looks strange, how to Assign normal map & diffuse textures to relief_mapping shader?

thank you
[/QUOTE]How use FX Composer Effect in 3D StudioMax? [QUOTE]

Это эффект для нвидия композер а не для 3д макса
надо в нем изменить пару строк.
попробуй такой вариант?
Hi to all
a question 'm curious I still not tryed it but noone used it to do roof elements in architectural models?

bye and thanks in avance
я юзал а что у тебя возникли трудности ?
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